[Team-Building] Tri-Color Chinese Gods Appreciation Thread (WIP; mainly Byakko)
08-21-2013, 03:32 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 11:58 AM by Misa.)
[Team-Building] Tri-Color Chinese Gods Appreciation Thread (WIP; mainly Byakko)
Tri-Color Chinese God Teams: Lineup and Gameplay
(Mainly Byakko Central)
✪ Introduction ✪
Hi there and welcome to the Tri-Colored Chinese God thread! With all the new Chinese god users on the forum now, I thought it would be nice to clarify some things on the style of gameplay these teams require and the subs that should be used. Byakko, Suzaku, Genbu and Seiryuunow have their own threads. If you are looking for information on Kirin teams, I recommend that you check out Kitsch's thread.
If you are looking for specific information on the gods aside from Byakko, here are some other more specific resources (some WIPs):
Table of Contents
✪-✪-✪ I. Introduction and General Tips
✪-✪-✪-✪-✪ II. Potential Subs and Sample Lineups
✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪ III. Various Dungeons and Descend Strategies- Legend Difficulty
✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪ IV. Descend Strategies continued- Mythical
✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪-✪ V. Friend List Registry
As fun as the Chinese gods may be at first, you must learn to play with them in a certain manner for the mid-game and later dungeons since stalling is incredibly important for you to be able to tackle bosses. You absolutely need to be able to stall long enough for their actives to be up to defeat dungeon bosses- and even then their consecutive actives may not be enough at times, thus delay (if available) is a must have.
Keep in mind that orb trolling is likely to occur when running these teams, but orb changers are not the solution to this problem necessarily. It is absolutely crucial that one learns how to store certain colored orbs for burst damage while refreshing the board with a decent amount of combos.
"All you need is Orb Changers"
Let me say this right off the bat- orb changers are not everything on a Chinese God team. This seems to be a widespread misconception. They (the mystic knights and the various heartbreakers) are relatively easily obtainable subs, but they are far from the ideal. There is no need to stuff your team full of them since without utility subs, your build will be capable of little more than farming. Besides, if you can refresh your board reliably, you do not even need them.
I am not trying to belittle their importance though in any lineup. There seems to be an idea floating around that the more orb changers, the better though. Of course, if you do not have any better subs than it is okay to use them by all means, but they should never ever take precedence over delay and/ or enhance. Keep in mind that x12.25 is not sufficient to one-shot all mid-game dungeon bosses even.
"x12.25 is too under-whelming"
Sure x12.25 is no x25 or even x16, but Tri-Colored Chinese God Teams are able to utilize element attack enhance actives such as those possessed by the Norse gods more efficiently than most Egyptian or Kirin teams in order to compensate for this. Add on some row enhance and you have the potential to have amazing damage output. But of course, damage is not everything and utility should not be sacrificed for such!
In my opinion, lineups should generally include subs of the same color as their respective Chinese god leaders- especially if an orb changer and/ or heartbreaker is included. This makes it easier to stall.
If a monster with delay is available in any of the colors that a Chinese god leader covers, you will likely want to make sure to place them in your lineup! If you have a max-skilled Echidna and are using a Suzaku or Byakko team, you will quickly realize how valuable she is I understand that Seiryuu and Genbu are at a bit of a disadvantage because they lack synergy with the easily accessible Echidna, but that does not mean that their teams should be discredited entirely.
To run Chinese God teams in later dungeons, the ability to combo 4+ times, conceptualize the necessary orb matches, and move orbs fast enough is mandatory. As a Horus user, it took me a while before I got accustomed to this. It just requires a lot of practice and a different outlook on orb matching.
Keep in mind that low tier techs, normals, and EC (for the most part) are simply confidence boosters. The real challenge arrives when you attempt to tackle dungeons higher than Tomb of the Saint- Deep if the Chinese god is your starting roll or higher than Ocean of Heaven if you are already an experienced player.
Enemies: Timers and Types
Always pay attention to the timers on monsters before attacking- most Egyptian team users are likely familiar with this, but those of you new to spike damage teams need to take heed of this every wave. You can afford to make mistakes here and there, but it’s nothing like 2/4/2 mono-colored teams, where you can easily tank hits from ogres, masks, etc.
It is easy to be wowed by the damage multiplier at first… Just don't be too trigger happy when entering a dungeon and start combo-ing as soon as you see the orbs on your board fall. Note the timers on every wave. That one turn you could have stalled for might make the difference between life and death later down the line.
A largely mono-colored team aids with stalling. One can quickly defeat mobs with an orb match in the dominant color + a few additional combos on the side. This is best used to tackle those annoying devils that are always on 1 timers in later dungeons. Eventually you will find those divine masks a godsend XD
Looking up the amount of damage each monster in the dungeon will deal you can also help out with stalling considerably. Know which monsters will one shot you, bind your leads, etc.
A few more tips on Stalling from Bhelrudan:
There is a pretty safe way to stall with Chinese teams without much risk of accidental activations. Just try to only clear one of your three required colors per turn in addition to the off colors. Don't make any combos with the other two required colors. So with Byakko for example, on your first stall turn clear as many dark orbs as you can without matching any red or blue (and maybe even breaking up pairs that are risks for skyfall). Then the next turn do red only, then blue only on the next, and cycle through. By doing that you'd have to have 2 different colors skyfall to cause an unintended activation, which becomes increasingly unlikely when you've cleared the board of those colors every 3 turns. Its rather difficult for a random skyfall to activate your leader skill unintentionally when it would need to happen twice, and there are very few orbs of the needed color anywhere on the board.
Once you get to a point where you're ready to start activating again, just clear your off colors for a few turns, and your board should naturally start filling back up with the colors needed to activate.
Always count the number of orbs you have on your board in each of your god’s required colors. Another reason not to be too trigger happy
Orb trolling is inevitable. Orb changers and heartbreakers are not the solution to this though- especially if you do not have them decently skilled up. The ability to combo and stall are infinitely more valuable in my opinion- besides, if you do plan to tackle Descended dungeons with a Chinese god team, it is highly unlikely that you will be bringing a full team of these guys around. x12.25 does not make the cut without delay, enhance, etc.
This is where stalling ties in to orb conservation. Whilst stalling, make sure to hoard orbs in each of the necessary colors toward the bottom of your board to prevent skycombos.
The Active Skill and Maximizing Damage
The board that any of Tri-colored Chinese gods' actives give you is entirely randomized. There is no method to the madness- no set amount of certain orbs, no nothing. You may receive a board with less than 3 orbs in one of the colors. that chances of this are very slim though. To maximize damage here, you want to make as many combos as possible out of the orbs you are presented with.
It is important to note that you should not get into the habit of automatically using the actives of the Chinese Gods when you arrive at a boss wave. The first active to be used should almost always be delay. This will give you 4+ turns to take down a boss- 2 more turns than you have actives available for (unless you are using a duplicate Chinese god as a sub).
If you have the right orbs on your board for triggering the leader skill of your Chinese God, by all means refrain from using the active then. You can think of the actives as panic buttons to be used on a boss when you are orb trolled. Of course, not all bosses have high hp that require you to use multiple, consecutive turns of triggering the actives of the Chinese Gods.
With the implementation of dual element bosses (Minerva at Hera-Ur, the new Magic Stone Dragons, etc.), the timing of a Chinese god active should be taken into great consideration. Keep in mind that these bosses oftentimes do not hit too hard nor utilize potentially lethal skills while they remain within the first half of their hp. Stall and chip away at their health while remaining in this "safety zone" (pray that skycombos will not take you past its bounds). Hopefully if you are attempting these more difficult dungeons, you have a sense of how much damage output your team has- and that you have catered this to type advantage and disadvantage if applicable. Once you reach what you see as the appropriate hp mark, toggle the active skill of your respective Chinese god, trigger the maximum amount of combos you can given the board and hope for a large enough damage output to defeat the boss right then and there.
Orb Changers and Burst Damage
For tackling specific bosses according to type advantage though, orb changers are more suited for burst damage since the board the active provides is unreliable whereas an orb changing active skill (especially one of the Greek Gods 2.0) will lead to many orbs being in the desired color. When you use these orb changers though, make sure you have enough orbs in the other required colors to trigger the leader skill.
You do not want a board of nearly all orbs of a single color since it is honestly no fun to rely on sky combos for damage. Make sure to keep not just the minimum, but a fair amount of orbs in the other colors of your respective Chinese god around before planning out when to use an orb changer burst in damage!
The only exception to the rule for going for maximum combos applies to teams focused on row enhance. Even then, you want to maximize the amount of combos possible while maintaining leader skill activation requisites and creating rows of a particular element.
In this section I will only list the awoken skills that will impact your gameplay because unfortunately a majority don't do much for or bear considerable relevance to Byakko (due to the nature of potential subs) and other Tri-Colored Chinese God teams. This is not to say that they are useless though. They simply should not be prioritized if you are short on tamadoras or duplicates.
Orb Enhance: Orbs in select colors will fall enhanced upon your board or be present in your board upon dungeon entry
These skills are possessed by all of the Tri-Colored Chinese God leads in their respective elements. Effects of these awokens stack. With 6.4.3 around the corner, enhanced orbs will stay in their position regardless of orb changing. This means that it is possible to keep most of your board enhanced now instead of having to stare at those measly stragglers after a Seven Star Formation.
Row Enhance: Increases damage of a specific element by 10% when clearing a row in its respective color
Teams do have the potential to be built solely off of row enhance awokens with the Tri-Colored Chinese Gods' fourth awakening. But unless you have many REM exclusive subs available for use, this is not a feasible option. Even if you do (in the case of dark row enhances), a Satan team might do you more justice. All in all, utility is generally preferred still, but these awoken skills can only help your case.
Skill Boost: Charges each of your monster's active skills by 1 turn upon entering the dungeon
Invaluable in dungeons where stalling is very difficult, this class of awoken skills is very helpful, but is only possessed by REM exclusives in addition to many of the farmable dragons.
Time Extension: Increases the amount of time you have to move orbs by 0.5 s per awoken skill
This skill is only possessed by Dumpty and Yomi in terms of relevance to Byakko teams. It can only aid your potential damage output and both subs have relevant active skills, albeit that which Yomi possesses is less necessary though.
08-21-2013, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 08:26 AM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
-In the process of updating this-
✪ Potential Subs ✪
Subs can be adjusted as necessary depending on the type of monsters you shall face in each dungeon. That is part of the appeal of running Chinese God teams after all! You cannot really go wrong with primarily dark in most dungeons though since it does not suffer from element resistance and it is easier to stall with a primarily mono-colored team as stated earlier! However, a common problem encountered with Byakko builds is low RCV.
If an orb changer is to be included on a Byakko team, I would recommend using one that is of the dark type because your leads are purely dark by default. Keep in mind that for all farmable orb changers you are sacrificing stats (hp mainly) in lieu of burst potential. Thus, I do not believe there are truly perfect dark subs to be used here. I recommend delegating two of your sub slots to dark monsters though- unless you are challenging a dungeon of a particular type (wood or water mainly). Even then, dark subs work just fine.
ECO Dumpty Alma, the invade monster from the ECO collab, can be used in the same manner as Loki. Though her stats aren't nearly as good as his, she is still a farmable alternative to enhance dark damage on a Byakko team. However, since she is merely a balance type, she cannot serve as a true replacement for Loki on a Byakko team with devil subs. I highly recommend that individuals without a Loki make an attempt to farm her because her active is just about imperative to farmable descend builds for some of the more difficult dungeons.
Hera has decent stats all around, but keep in mind that the cooldown for her gravity is at 30 turns when she is not skilled… That is a lot of turns to stall for in any given dungeon… At least gravity is not needed for most normal dungeon clears- not even Zeus Descended in fact . She does not need to be a part of your everyday Byakko build because of this, unless you lack an orb changer with better stats.
Chaos Dragon Knight’s (CDK) active skill is useful for clearing the board of unwanted light orbs so you can trigger Byakko’s leader skill- but more importantly for dark burst damage. When using orb changers for burst damage, make sure that you have sufficient fire and water orbs on your current board before using CDK’s active. Only do this if you will likely die otherwise or need to stall until other actives are up: His orb changing skill can even aid with stalling for 2 sets of dark orb matches + a few combos to clear a board can allow you to defeat targeted enemies while leaving one mob in a wave to stall on. You can also pull off a weak AOE attack on waves with multiple devils and one other mob, then stall on that remaining mob.
Vampire (DVL) has the same functions on a Byakko team as CDK, but offers better stats and is more easily max-skilled (Big Baddies). The trade-off is that you are converting heart orbs to dark orbs, which can impede upon your ability to stall if you do not plan things out before using his active skill. His water subtype makes it easier to create a predominantly dark Byakko team now though. As an easily skilled and obtainable orb changer, he may have a place on your everyday farming Byakko teams while his stats (and useful active) may earn him a slot on your Descend build.
Drawn Joker (DJ or JDDJ) can aid one with stalling now that he is a farmable sub and one that can be skilled fairly easily at that! His orb to heart changing active is not counterproductive to Byakko's colors and he has fair RCV to boot. If you have him, I definitely suggest using him instead of Siren for better stats and synergistic type at the same CD. He is part of the ever popular Byakko build containing the DJ/ Vamp burst, which can easily surpass a 7 star formation in terms of damage when given a nice board. This little dragon can even help you acquire your first Hera-Is! Check out my thread on Hera-Is Resist (and Luci) Team Tips for more information!
Rainbow Keeper (RK or KoR) is arguably the most easily accessible dark sub for Byakko teams. He is pretty much similar in function to the red and blue golems in terms of his role on a Byakko team- high hp contribution and Defensive Stance. The main plus is that he does not require an exp investment and notable, but less important- he has some RCV. Main drawback to using him is that his cooldown for Defensive Stance perpetually stays at 20 turns. Once you get accustomed to stalling with a Chinese god team, it generally is not hard to wait until his active is up though. Ideally, you should not have to use his active though if you time your delay and use of actives and/ or orb changers well. You may find him useful in your Descend teams as well as a stat stick for everyday farming.
Dark ripper (CDD) can be used as a placeholder here due to team cost reasons, but everyone should have access to a Rainbow Keeper or two ideally.
For Descends, it might be of use to keep a few of these guys handy for tackling bosses with high defense at points where you cannot afford to burn an offensive active skill:
Loki serves as an amazing enhancer on a Byakko team. Byakko’s board-changing active + Loki’s dark enhance deals dark damage that can easily reach over 200k per dark sub. The cooldown for his skill is 17, which is a reasonable amount of time to stall for in dungeons with 7 waves. He can also be skilled up with the aforementioned ECO Dumpty. Definitely a top tier sub for a Byakko team.
D/W Batman has an active similar to Loki's in nature, but is x2 for one turn vs. x1.5 for three turns. Because the enhance is only for one turn, it is of the utmost importance to utilize it well with a board with dark orbs abound coupled with the maximum number of combos that you can achieve. His CD is at 15 turns- two turns less than Loki's default, which can prove especially useful in dungeons where stalling is incredibly difficult. If you were fortunate enough to roll him in the Batman Collab Gacha, you will also be able to create a strong descend-capable nearly mono-dark Byakko team!
D/L Batman is now more relevant to Byakko teams in my opinion because of his upcoming ultimate evolution with an added devil subtype. His RCV is still very low so I do not recommend using him unless you plan on going with a team laden with Devil subs.
Byakko can act as a sub on a Byakko team if you have two of them The third active might come in handy at times and of course the cooldown is nothing to worry about in this case! Keep in mind that the randomness of her active does not lead to a reliable amount of combos nor dark orbs though. For these reasons, an orb changer like Persephone or the DJ/ DVL combo if you can afford to clear a second slot might be a safer bet.
Persephone’s orb changing skill is incredibly useful when you want to have a concentrated burst of dark damage. Use her active when there is a fair number of orbs to convert and a decent amount of other colored orbs you can combo with- the combo-ing will increase damage dramatically and you do not truly want a board predominantly full of dark orbs because you will be relying on combos for huge damage output- not just the number of dark orbs present. The cooldown for her skill is 16 turns, which is also within the reasonable range of turns to stall for as well, although she can now be skilled up with Charming Temptress. With a lower CD, devil subtype and synergistic second element, Persephone is now a much more useful sub for Byakko teams. Arguably even more useful than a second Byakko due to a predictable output of dark orbs.
Pandora is the only hero god that has synergy with a Byakko team. Her awakens are useful- especially as the only dark orb changer with skill bind resist potential, which is becoming more and more relevant nowadays. Only problem is the CD, but at least she will likely be able to be skilled up through a rare monster in the dark flower dragon dungeon (speculation as of now).
Dark Valkyrie possesses the same active as DVL, but I think people still tend to prefer to use him as a member of their team instead unless RCV is a huge concern.
Hades, D/D especially, is superior to the farmable Hera. His role would be the same in nature as that of Hera though as a gravity user. His awoken skills (skill boost and row enhance) make him a far better option than her though.
Yomi’s Change the World skill can be used in conjunction with Byakko’s active or an orb changer to deal massive damage by arranging the board to accommodate the maximum amount of combos possible. Perhaps some of you have seen TGP use her (Is yomi a girl in PaD though? ) in his lineup. She is by no means a necessity though- it simply helps with the combo-ing process. Her awakened skills, primarily the orb manipulation time extension, can help out significantly with spike teams in general. Plus, she can now be skilled up using ECO Tiny! D/D Yomi has high RCV which can be make her even more useful for Byakko teams now.
D/D Batman can serve as a sub on Byakko teams due to his single turn delay as a dark monster in case there is a boss where 3 extra turns from Echidna might be overkill. His row enhance awokens can aid Byakko teams further with dark damage as well.
Archdemon Lucifer is valued for his awoken skills and more useful active skill due to its added dark orb enhance function. He is only recommended as a Byakko sub if you plan to build a team focusing on row enhance awakens.
Honestly, if you want to keep things succinct, Echidna > All for standard daily use and most descends. The other subs listed here are more or less potential
Echidna will be your MVP for stalling as well as taking down more difficult bosses on a Byakko team. I strongly suggest that you attempt to max skill her since it makes dungeon progression much easier~ She should be a permanent member of your Byakko team.
Hera-Ur is an orb enhancer with amazing synergy for a Byakko team since she enhances both fire and dark orbs. I believe that she would be best used in a hybrid Chinese team with type subs though for Descend burst damage (Byakko/ Devil in this case). Like other orb enhancers, she is still largely situational, but is a tad bit more useful after 6.4.3 where enhanced orbs won't disappear upon orb changing.
Red Giant Gigas (RGG) is the only candidate for a farmable, productive orb changer. I do not recommend using more than one fire sub unless you are clearing a wood dungeon- even then, dark subs should take priority. And that negative RCV in his final forms... Probably not a good choice, but a Titan or Gigas will do in the early days for fire if you lack echidna at the get-go.
Jotunn is a possible candidate for a fire sub, but he is only truly of use when max-skilled. Even 15 turns is a bit long in terms of stalling for most Chinese god teams because it exceeds the 14 turn cooldown of their actives. Also, keep in mind that golems have negligible RCV, which makes stalling hard! You might have the hp to tank hits, but it really does you no good if you can never completely recover from them. Overall, if you are going to use a golem, I suggest going for the blue one since you never truly need two red subs on a standard Byakko team (only instance I can think of where red was prioritized was a Zeus Dios video).
The red ripper should serve as a placeholder only if you have none of the above.
Do not use Phoenix Knight Homura (PKH) unless you absolutely, absolutely have to Extremely counterproductive…
Keep in mind that most Byakko teams only utilize a single red sub- echidna. However, here are some suggestions in case you find yourself having trouble with a wood-type monster in a given dungeon.
Freyr can be used in a similar manner to Horus, but for a lot more damage due to the nature of his active. He might be especially useful for tackling tough wood-type bosses such as Zeus Dios.
Horus can be used as an orb enhancer on a Byakko team, but the only time I would see him as being more useful than an enhancer of another color would be for tackling wood monsters and only marginally at that. Hera-Ur would be the ideal orb enhancer to use on a Byakko team since she enhances both dark and fire orbs, having great stats as well unlike the mythical beasts. Only plus side is his higher RCV than her if you went F/F.
Though Chiyome’s orb changing skill works for Byakko teams (Light → Fire), unless you are in need of a heavily fire element oriented team I would not recommend her. At the very least she can now be skilled up with the red pirate randomly encountered during pre-boss waves in the Fire Pirate Dragon dungeon.
Drall… His subtype is entirely useless on Byakko teams. Although he can be skilled up by ECO Salamander Alma now, I think he's best on an attacker team.
Kagutsuchi will be nothing more than a stat stick if you use him in a Byakko team. His active skill has a long cooldown at 30 turns unless you somehow managed to skill him up significantly by grinding Poring Tower and amassing a godly amount of Angelings. Despite his subtype having synergy with Byakko teams and his attack stat being the highest in the current game, I would not use him since his active is rather lacking.
WaterWater subs are generally harder to come by and the choice for the ideal farmable blue sub here is more up to debate.
Keep in mind though that in this day and age of PaD, you can fulfill your requirement for a water sub through the inclusion of DVL or DJ; thus, a sub with water as a main element is not imperative.
Hera-Is is the best farmable sub with water being the dominant element for a Byakko team in my opinion for her great stats (dat invaluable RCV! :o) and synergy with Byakko’s colors. Of course, not everyone may have access to her just yet if they have not completed Hera-Is Descended. Do not fret though! Gravity is not needed for normal dungeon clears. For everyday use, she can be replaced with Siegfried or Kamui since her CD is too long for most normal dungeons.
Kittyn and Mimmyna are a farmable version of I&I with better stats than the GC Crab that also shares the same active skill as them. Suited for the same purposes as I&I would as a sub in a Byakko team.
Siegfried would likely be my second choice for a farmable water sub for a Byakko team, because of the subtype synergy and his stats. However, he is not as readily as available since he is a drop from Two Heroes Descended. At least this dungeon can be tackled with a completely farmable Byakko team though (more details provided later)! He can be easily skilled up through Poring Tower though, which is a major plus! He is a great sub for everyday use due to his low CD- however, he is not the best descend sub due to his low RCV and heartbreaking skill that may clash with DVL.
Fenrir Knight Kamui (FKK) would be third since his orb changing skill is productive (wood → water). A major downside to using him though is that he is not easily skilled up, nor obtainable since he lacks a special event dungeon at the moment. For these reasons and his weaker stats, I place him below Siegfried.
Arcane Monarch, the water counterpart to DVL still makes for a decent sub, but his active heavily focuses on dark damage, which is also the general source of Byakko team damage. Generally his dark counterpart is preferred over this evolution although it is still viable.
Byakko’s color combination does not truly support Siren as an easily accessible orb to heart changer that can be used for stalling (fire → heart orbs is counterproductive). You can use her as an early farmable sub, but she is very far from ideal. Her RCV and CD may aid with stalling in harder dungeons, but the attack output in exchange is god awful >_< Not a descend quality sub.
Midgard is a viable sub. Reasons why and why not to use him are the same as those for the red golem.
The water ripper can be a placeholder.
Orochi’s superior delay can be helpful in dungeons, perhaps Descendeds, but the cooldown of 25 is a bit much to stall for in normal dungeons at least. If you are merely looking to clear normal/ tech dungeons, I would use an orb changer over him because of the shorter cooldown.
Idunn & Idunna can be used to enhance water damage in the same way that Loki can enhance dark damage. Ideally, you want to use their enhance on a team that includes primarily water subs- not the more standard primarily dark Byakko team. The use of the twins is pretty situational in my opinion because of this. You may want to consider using a primarily blue team in the more difficult fire dungeons though. Switching up your Byakko team lineup from primarily dark → blue is not necessary though by any means.
Hermes can be used in the same manner as Persephone, except for a burst of water damage of course. He has a skill-up monster from the DDQ collab on JP and BAO collab now so his CD can be reduced to a reasonable 9 turns. A Hermes + CDK orb conversion gives you a board that is the equivalent of a Chinese god active without the randomness factor since it can be tailored to fit type advantage. However, unless you want to go with a water heavy Byakko team, I would not recommend using him.
Water Valk offers the same active skill than Siegfried does with much better RCV. Yes, she is another (lame) re-coloration of the standard Rosekyrie, but what her art lacks in the creativity department is compensated for through the RCV contribution.
Beast Rider… No skill-up monsters for him, but more importantly, his stats are awful.
Remember that your Byakko team is not just limited to these options though!
Tips on Byakko Lineup Progression for those at the Beginner or Intermediate Level
There is no true ideal lineup with the Chinese God teams in my opinion since the use of certain monsters can be largely situational to aid with burst damage. Here are a few lineups that can help guide your progression though using only farmable subs (since the REM is too unpredictable I will leave the ability to slot the subs you acquire on the way to your own discretion):
Total Team Cost: 28
Fortunately, Byakko has synergy with the Dub-Mythlit, which only has a team cost of 1 for very good stats in the early game! You can farm up your entire beginner team from Friday Dungeon- Expert theoretically. However, I strongly recommend farming up a naga as soon as possible! Once you have enough Team Cost, I recommend replacing the dub-sapphilit with a Keeper of Water due to his useful active and higher hp (hp is usually the first problem encountered in the early days after all).
Teams on training wheels (aka orb changer madness)
Total Team Cost: 55
This team includes a lot of easily accessible orb changers. The knights can be obtained from their respective survey dungeons- minus poor Kamui , or from the CoS Mystic Knight event that comes around every once in a while. Siren is an early game staple that every PaD player should own, so she can easily fill the blue slot- for the moment. Her active can aid with stalling in the early waves of a given dungeon. If you have a Pierdrawn, you can use him in place of either Dark Dragon Knight or Vampire Lord. I do not recommend using Siren and Pierdrawn in the same build if avoidable for two heartmakers is a bit much. XD
Do not become too comfortable here though since orb changers in excess like this serve as confidence boosters. You will need more utility subs in the future if you hope to tackle some of the more difficult dungeons!
If you were able to obtain one of the suggested Water subs through the REM, feel free to sub them in for Fenrir Knight here~
Transitions to a more balanced build
/ or /
Team Cost: 71-72
I highly recommend stuffing a RK in your lineup as soon as possible due to his high stat contribution. With a RK in the lineup, you will be able to tank hits from stronger monsters in dungeons. You still have some orb changers present for primarily dark, but also water burst damage though. The monsters here are easily accessible as well.
Team Cost: 56
The alternative to the aforementioned build with RK would be the above. Less ideal due to the golem's lower hp contribution until he is high leveled in his 5* form, but at a considerably lower team cost.
In summation, Early Farming Priorities should include:
Highest priority belongs to Naga as stated many times before. If I was forced to choose a second, it would be Pierdra since he can help you obtain Hera and Hera-Is, in addition to possibly becoming a permanent member of your balanced Byakko team!
This build, once decently leveled, is entirely capable of defeating Two Heroes Descended, which can potentially earn you the skill-able Siegfried if you lack any REM specialty subs or the DJ/ Vamp combo for the job.
If low hp is a problem, consider teaming up with a Persephone or Lucifer friend to mitigate the lack of hp. Keep in mind that this is an unrealistic hp buffer for later dungeons and Descends certainly.
Later team builds
Once you have established a solid Byakko team with the standard subs, either farmable or REM-exclusive at hand, there are a few things you should focus on that will be relevant for progression later on:
+Your Choice of Sub (presumably Dark)
Farming Builds do not require much utility in most cases, instead focusing on low CDs for straightforward dungeon clears. Siegfried will provide a great amount of hp, his subtype has synergy with Byakko's colors and he is much easier to skill-up than FKK. Sure the RCV may bite, but if stalling is not a huge concern that should not be a problem. This build is best used for very casually tackling dungeons and is not recommended for those of higher difficulties due to lower RCV and a lack of focused dark damage.
+Your Choice of Sub
This build is equipped for more difficult dungeons you might wish to farm such as those like GoH or the Tier 6's where stalling becomes a bit more difficult with low RCV. DJ's active, once skilled, tremendously helps out with stalling and you do not have to suffer from the lack of synergy that Siren, another heartmaker, but not one I consider truly viable creates. It is also very capable of tackling descends if you slot a dark attack enhancer in the final spot.
08-21-2013, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-19-2014 12:37 PM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
✪✪ Lineups and Tips for Byakko Teams in Assorted Dungeons and Legend Difficulty Descends ✪✪
In general, most dungeons of higher difficulty require a Byakko team with gravities (skilled or unskilled depends on the dungeon at hand), an attack enhancer, or less commonly dual delay.
The key subs for each category include:
Other slots are generally reserved for a form of delay and orb changers; the most popular combination of which are DVL and DJ.
Here are some of the more common choices:
But of course, you simply have to work with what you have got. If you do not have any of the subs listed here, it does not mean that your Byakko team isn't descend-worthy. It simply means that it is not in line with conventional standards for success, which by no means are the only way of clearing difficult dungeons though.
✪ Assorted Dungeons ✪
-section by Altamir-
Starlight Sanctuary - King of Gods
These are the three builds I would recommend for tackling Starlight Sanctuary – King of Gods. Two of them rely on gravity. One does not. These are not the only options. It is possible to stall for 30 rounds for gravity, but obviously it’s much easier if you have skilled gravities. If you are looking to get this stage into farm mode, I would suggest having higher skilled gravities.
Floors 1 through 7: Clear normally, the best places to stall are in order are blue devils, red devils, dubs, and finally ogres. When you get to a blue devil with some other trash (light knights, light devils, black devils), use your black attacks to clear out the trash around the blue devil. Once you have isolated the blue devil, do the following; clear all the red orbs, clear all the blue orbs, at this point you will take a hit, clear one set of black orbs, clear another set of black orbs (or all red or blue), take another hit. Hopefully at this point you should have a board filled with at least 6 hearts, and a bunch of green and yellow orbs. Combo big and heal back to full. Repeat until you’ve stalled enough, get a skyfall combo, or finally whittled away the devils HP.
Floor 8, Tiamat: Kill here normally. Should take two basic attacks to finish this guy off.
Floor 9, Chaos Devil Dragon: If you have Loki, use Loki, and one Haku active to OHKO him. If you do not have Loki, use D/D Batman, and use one attack to soften him up, and then a Haku active to finish him off. If the Chaos Devil Dragon comes in on a 3 timer you maybe able to finish him off with normally attacks, or possibly not using Loki.
Floor 10, Zeus: Right off the bat, use Menace. Then use all your active abilities. With a stacked enough team, after gravities, you can finish Zeus off with one normally attack and one Haku active.
Clearing Endless corridors with Haku is no small feat. It’s going to require quite a few plus eggs to make it happen (and a bit of luck). Two builds that I know work for Endless Corridors are as follows, I would suggest having over 17,007 HP , so you can at least take one hit from Hera on floor 49.
Floors 1 through 46: There is nothing special here. Kill, clear, and work your way up through the floors. You shouldn't have to use any skills till floor 49 against Hera.
Floor 47, Neptune: You need to be able clear Neptune without using a Haku active. Neptune has 96,000 armor and 61,244 HP. In order to clear this without using a haku active, you’re going to need to have at least two monsters with a little more than 1800 black attacks (this is Hakus with almost maxed out plus egg on attack) and need to hit, 3x3 black, one red combo, one blue combo. If you do not have 3x3 black, you’re going to need to do 2x3 black, one red, one blue, and 3 other combos.
Floor 48, Hades: Kill him, if you have a high timer try and set up your board for Hera. Store heart orbs and attack orbs as best you can.
Floor 49, Hera: Hera hits for 17,007. If you are lucky you might be able to take a hit and heal back up once, before using menace. To heal back up it is most likely going to be somewhere around a 7 combo with two sets of heal orbs and 3,000+ RCV. After using Menace, try and burn down as many HP as possible while healing up. You should be able to attack one more time, before using your Haku active to finish her off. You need to save at least one turn of Loki’s active for Zeus if you have him.
Floor 50, Zeus: Pop Gravities. If you have Loki and didn’t get him started on Hera, use him here. Use your Haku active and pray for a dark heavy board. If you have D/D Batman, use him. Soften up Zeus with one attack, and then use your Haku active while praying for a dark heavy board.
Paradise of the Holy Beast
As the last tech dungeon, this should not be taken lightly. The challenge level of this dungeon is about a low level mythical. I would suggest max or near max level monsters, at least roughly 600 plus eggs with a friend, and roughly 3k RCV with a friend. All farmable monsters should be max skill.
There are two ways to tackle this, double delay and a resist team. Honestly its my personal belief that the resist team is an easier clear. I think that most people would not want to build up and max Purple Stone Dragon, Damascus, but honestly, it’s a great place to farm dark keepers, and while you are farming them, you can skill, awaken, and level him up. However, I would farm only on Mondays for the x1.5 drop. The drop rate is about 90%. I may add a guide to the double delay team if there is a demand for it. Here is the resist build:
Floor 1, Keeper of Rainbow: Gung-Ho loves to start dungeons off with a raw damage test. You have 4 turns to deal 1.3 million damage. At this level, it should not be that hard. However, if you are struggling and things are looking tight, with the skill boosts from Damascus, the DJ / Vamp combo should be up by turn 3 and you can blast away.
Floor 2, Incarnation of Genbu, Meimei: Meimei has high armor and is going to need to be ground down, she has 46 HP, will spend one turn binding you and then begin to hit you for between 7.8k normal and 7k and turn some orbs into jammers. Again, you’re going to need to heal a lot to get through this. A heal a turn and averaging 6 combos is what it’s going to take. Feel free to use your DJ to help. Once she drops below 10 HP she’s going to hit you for 16,422. You can either try and time this so you don’t get hit. Take the hit, and try and blast through, or just use menace to just make a clean exit. When I ran this, I used menace.
Floor 3, Incarnation of Seiryuu, Karin: We have three turns to kill Karin. She has 1.6mil HP. Her attacks are very strong and will OHKO us. As long as you get some decent boards, hopefully you should only have to use your DJ / Vamp combo here.
Floor 4, Incarnation of Suzaku, Leilan: We only have 2 turns to kill Suzaku. She has 1.5mil and again her attacks are very strong. Above 60% we may be able to survive an attack, below 60% she has a 60% chance to hit us anywhere between 17k to 21k. There are some calculated risks to take here, but if all went well on the floor before you should be able to use both 7-Star actives and kill her in two shots.
Floor 5, Incarnation of Byakko, Haku: You’d think we’d take pity on ourselves, but nope! You’re going to take a 10k preempt after that, pop Damascus and its stall time! The great thing is that Damascus’ leader skill will half even disastrous heavy fangs, so the gravity will only do 49% HP instead of 99%. I would try NOT to active your attack, it’ll only do x3.5 damage, so it’s not the worst if we do, but we’ve got to stall here until Damascus is up again. Once she dips under 60% she’ll increase her attack, at worse we will be taking 8,665 a turn. Not great, but workable. Again use DJ where you need him. Once Damascus is up, everyone else’s skills should be up. Switch back to Byakko, use Menace, and finish her. Make sure you hold one 7 star back!
Floor 6, Masks, Lits, and TAMA!: Pop 7 star, combo, but NOT that crazy. You only need to hit over 100k damage to kill the masks. If you do over 300k you’re going to kill the TAMA. This is possible if you get a very dark heavy board or a few skyfalls. If your Byakko is at or near 1880 damage, you’ll need to hit 2 black matches and 4 others, should do 115,517 damage. Once you’ve narrowed it down to just the TAMA, and you realize something else dropped besides it, and it stares at you, mocking and smiling, its time to play stall / manual CTW. Set your board up (I would try and set it up as black heavy as possible), get your skills back up. Once you are set, memorize your CTW movement, take a screenshot if it will help, and finish off the TAMA.
Floor 7, Incarnation of Kirin, Sakuya: Kirin tries to be tricky and black the board out, but we’re smarter than that. Hit your manual CTW that you memorized (refer to your screen shot if you need too). If you’re lucky, it will outright kill her. If not, hopefully it will cut out a huge chuck of HP. If you can avoid it, do not use your 7-star, but if you have to use it.
Floor 8, Kouryu, the Star Emperor: If he gets a turn, we’re dead meat, so pop menace. We have 4 turns to burn down 4mil. But its light health, so it’s really closer to 2mil. Not bad at all! One 7-star and one DJ/ Vamp combo hopefully should be enough. If not you have two turns to use whatever you can to crush him, clear, and move on to victory!
✪ Legend Difficulty Descends ✪
Lineup Conditions: none; if applicable, Defensive Stance sub recommended if you cannot pass hp minimum to tank one Berserk hit
In my opinion this is the easiest Descend because it does not require any special subs, thus you may want to consider gearing up for this dungeon as your first Descend clear! A basic, but balanced team such as those aforementioned in the previous section should be sufficient with decent levels.
Wave 1: Activate immediately or you may face death depending on timers and total team hp
Wave 2: If masks are on synced timers, consider activating Byakko's LS to defeat the masks in color you have element advantage to. Hopefully you have an understanding of your team's general damage per relevant color match made. This is you best place to stall.
Wave 3: If you know how to control your damage, it is possible to stall here as well, but the mask wave is generally recommended for doing such. Activate and kill if you have already stalled until all actives are prepared since you do not want to go into the following wave without such.
Wave 4: Arguably this is the most difficult part of the dungeon depending on 1. enemy timers 2. your team's stats 3. lack of element advantage. You may or may not need to burn an offensive here for enough burst damage. Using Echidna here is also an option if you have decent enough RCV to stall on the final vampire until Menace is back up before proceeding to the final wave.
Wave 5: Pop menace and an offensive active. Defeat highlander first. If you are not confident about being able to burst down Berserk with all of your actives during the delay period, hopefully you have enough hp to tank one of his attacks (14,086). If not, consider slotting a RK or a golem on your team for this dungeon to buy you a few extra turns. Good luck getting the drop you want!
Goddess Descended: Legend (and Mythical)
Lineup Conditions: Gravity/ Enhance/ Dual Delay
Another one of the easier dungeons for Byakko, this time it is due to element advantage though! There are also multiple opportunities to safely stall in this dungeon, which is generally not the case with most Descends. The only true difference between Legend and Mythical is the increased hp and damage taken from attacks; thus, I do not feel like a separate write-up for Mythical is necessary for this dungeon.
Wave 1: Clear immediately with simple activation. Failure to do such will result in death.
Wave 2: This is the ideal wave for stalling. Be sure not overkill with too many dark orbs chained in your activation, which is useful for clearing the light masks if not the fire one as well- also be wary of skycombos. Can't recommend a specific amount of combos since that depends on your personal lineup. Hopefully, by this point you are aware of your own team's damage output and capabilities though!
Wave 3: The golem is pretty mundane (though I really can't complain since with a Lucifer team, this guy is an infinitely greater bore). Chip away at his health without using any actives. If you were unable to stall until all of your actives were up on Wave 2, you can stall here. Do not damage past the 40% hp mark while doing such. Around that point you need to go for the kill- preferably avoiding active use in the process.
Wave 4: This wave may or may not require an active depending on your current board and type of demons/ their timers. Make sure to defeat one ASAP, if not one shot them both at the get go.
Wave 5: Delay immediately since she will shield otherwise at full hp. Trigger offensive actives, if applicable. Good luck! With type advantage, she should be an easy kill!
Lineup conditions: No requisites, Defense-surpassing sub strongly recommended though (poisoner or armor breaker for Legend, UFO/ Tenth Angel/ Bahamut/ etc.)
Hera-Ur is a fairly simple dungeon due to the final boss' low hp and element advantage throughout the dungeon against monsters such as Formula. The only thing to note is that it is highly recommended that you sacrifice a slot to a sub that can bypass Ifrit's defense. Keep in mind that although poisoners work for this purpose on Legend, Ifrit's preemptive shield prevents them from working on Mythical so UFO is often used as a sub for this purpose (JP players can use Bahamut or the red Taiko Drum).
Wave 1: Defeat the Blue Ogre ASAP! You must take him down before either of the first ogre's attack or you will get bound and likely die on this wave >_< make sure that you do not damage the green ogre past the 50% hp while stalling. Ideally, you should stall on this wave until all of your actives are up. Keep in mind that you need enough hp to tank a preemptive hit from Formula.
Wave 2: Straightforward. May take a few turns to defeat. Do not damage past 50% if avoidable due to his higher attack being triggered along with the fire element part of his hp. When nearing his halfway point in terms of hp, you need to go for the kill- preferably avoiding the use of an active in the process. Make sure that you have enough hp to tank Minerva's hp on this stage, if not you can try to heal during your first turn on Ifrit only if you are using UFO.
Wave 3: One shot using the active of your specialty sub. See above if applicable.
Wave 4: Same strategy applied to damaging Formula is utilized here. It is possible to stall if necessary while Minerva is above the 50% hp mark.
Wave 5: With Echidna up, you will have 4-5 turns which should be more than ample given her low hp and your offensive actives up Good luck!
-section by Altamir-
I’m going to write this from the perspective of a first attempt, from which you have no gravities to tackle Hera. There are so many builds that can take on Hera there is no way to show them all. So instead I am going to show some of the better subs out there. But there are far, far more than are mentioned in this list. The only must-have sub would be Echidna. I would also recommend a way to get past Neptune without having to use a Haku active (be it armor breaking, or orb changing [hopefully skilled enough they will be back up by Hera]).
I am showing monsters in these builds fully evolved, but guessing due to team costs and where people are in the game that it might not be the case. That’s ok! Also if you are assaulting Hera’s dungeon for the first time your skills may not be max yet, that’s also ok. Just try and plan ahead! Having over 14117 HP would be nice so you could at least take a hit from Minerva.
Floors 1 through 4: Stall where you can here to build up your skills. Try not to take any huge chances here.
Floor 5, Venus: Only 429,489 HP as a light monster with a 5,647 attack. If you have a higher end Haku team this is a good place to continue to stall if you need to. Should be fairly simple to take her down.
Floor 6, Minerva: Attacks for 14,117 every 3 turns, and has 515,044 HP. This is going to take a few attacks, and its recommended you have at least 14117 HP in order to take an attack. With Venus, Minerva, and Ceres right after the other this (or the next turn on Ceres) would be a good spot to use a skill to either boost your attack, delay, or something else to make this a little easier. There are about roughly 10 turns til Hera, so plan accordingly. Also keep in mind what skills you want to use in order beat Neptune.
Floor 7, Ceres: Attacks for 10780, has 515,404. Ceres is worse than Minerva. Try to finish this as fast as you can.
Floor 8, Neptune: Neptune has 72000 armor, 44,489 HP. No small feat. If you have a golem, you’ll probably need a 2x3 black combo as well as a red and a blue (of course). If you are flying without an armor breaking sub, and your Haku has 1,300 attack (a little over level 70) you’re going to need 3x3 black and a red and blue combo to break armor and kill him.
Floor 9, Hades: Hades has 600,600 HP, you should have plenty of time to finish him off. Though depending on the power of your team, this could get dicey.
Floor 10, Hera: She attacks for 12,354 and has 2.5 mil HP. Grinding down 2.5 million HP in the turns available is no small feat for a new Haku team. I would structure the attack as such: Attack, take a hit from Hera. Use Menace, Attack and heal over the next 4 turns. Use your skills where you can. If you’re lucky you should have both Haku actives and use them when you do not have a board to activate. Hopefully at this point she is dead. If not you’ve got two more turns, unless you have an extra delay, to finish her.
I’ve helped a LOT of people with Hera-Is, so here is my general write up for Hera-Is Legend:
So thankfully in Hera-Is– Legend there are A LOT of places to stall. Honestly you may not even need gravity, depending on your levels and your damage, and comboing skills. The mythical dungeon is pretty tricky, but the legend one is not too bad. It was created right around the time that spike teams were coming into their own, but burst teams (like Chinese, etc,) weren’t around yet. So the dungeon gives lot of space to set up boards and then attack, versus the descends today which are burst or die.
Here's a good overview of the dungeon floor by floor:
Floor 1: This is your best place to stall. It consist of two demons, which attack every turn, but only do ~3,500 damage. You should be able to either OHKO or two shot one of them. I would suggest the Helldark Blood Demon as he deals a little more damage. Just stall as best as you can here and try not to activate!
Floor two: Blue Skydragon and Night Skydragon. Between the two Blue Skydragon is MUCH better. Attacks every other turn, instead of every turn for only 6,925. Should be fairly easy to stall. The only scary bit is when either of them gets below 50%. Especially the Blue skydragon. So if you combo while trying to stall, make sure you finish them off quickly.
Floor Three: Viciousdragon Helheim. Above 75% health is not too awful, but below is a one shot. I would really not suggest stalling here. Wait till the counter is at its highest and the try and kill him in 2 turns. He only has 448,230 health, so one really good combo could kill him, but may take 2 or 3 if you're a little rusty. A LOT of people use Echidna here or a Haku Burst here.
Floor Four: Ice Mech Dragon: Again if you are desperate, you can do a bit of stalling here, this is pretty much your last chance to stall. He only does ~7,000 every other turn but again, once he gets below 50% things turn. Really ugly, extremely ugly at 25%.
Floor Five: Devil Dragons: No real stalling here. If you have a REALLY good board set up and are feeling confident, you can delay a bit and get a turn or two. But its pretty much 4 turns to kill or be killed.
Floor Six, Hera-is: Here’s the plus, only 1.8 million HP. That’s not a lot, its less than regular Hera in fact. She doesn’t really do a lot of damage (for a boss, again less than Hera), but the first turn counter binding of almost everyone is pretty much the death knell. As long as you have Echidna, one Haku, and gravity up you stand a very good chance of killing her.
I had a friend clear with no gravities on legend, using Haku, Loki, Vamp, Echidna, Siegfried, Haku. I cleared Mythical with Haku, Echidna, Vamp, Hera-Is, DQ Hera, Haku. Stalled on the first floor. Cleared through everything else. Used Vamp on Helheim. I think key points here is skilled gravities, and having enough HP to take one hit from Helheim if he comes on a very low timer. You can use one Haku active along the way, should only need menace, gravities and one Haku active to finish Hera-Is on mythical.
You should not need gravities at all. So if you want to use the Heras or Hades, use them for stat sticks only. For the bosses, Goemon only has 2mil HP and Mitsuki only has 1mil, so that should be something you should be able to carve your way through. Again these builds are only suggested, feel free to be creative and use what you have. Just because you don’t have this exact build doesn’t mean it cannot be done. If you have Idunn & Idunna, the Twin Archers, they would help things a lot!
Floor 1 is combo and clear.
Floor 2 you want to do about a 4 or 5 combo, it should clear all but one mid ninja where you can stall.
Floor 3 5 combos should clear all but one mid ninja where you can stall.
Floor 4, Mitsuki: She attacks for 5,653, I would slowly work her down while using DJ if necessary to create heart orbs stall long enough to have Echidna up for Goemon. Once you get her below 30% she attacks for 8489, so watch your health and hers closely. If you can finish her off without using your Haku active, great, but if you have to use it, no sweat.
Floor 5, Goemon: If he is allowed to attack, you’re toast, so use Menace and every active you’ve got to burn this guy down. Its only 2mil HP and should be very possible.
08-21-2013, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2014 06:12 AM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
✪✪✪ Specific Dungeon Lineups for Byakko Continued ✪✪✪
✪ Mythical Difficulty Dungeons ✪
Lineup Conditions: Gravity/ Enhance/ Dual Delay recommended
Zeus, the king of (Greek) gods, is arguably among one of the easier Mythical difficulty dungeons for Byakko teams to defeat. Valk being the easiest though in my opinion due to multiple places to stall along with type advantage.
Wave 1: Activate and defeat the wave or you might face immediate death depending on timers.
Wave 2: Stall on the masks as long as possible. This might require an activation to defeat one of the masks in case they are on synced timers or you have doubts about being able to defeat them. In general, I only recommend using an activation here as a last resort since you have element advantage against 2/3 masks, making it hard to stall indefinitely on the last. Start prepping your board for the chimeras at this point- that wave is arguably the hardest part of this dungeon.
Wave 3: If all went well on Wave 2, activate and kill demons. If not, try to control your damage to stall on a single demon here if possible. Be sure to either set up your board for the chimeras here or at least maintain it. If not, you might have to burn an active, or two in the worst possible scenario, on the next wave.
Wave 4: -sigh- The dreaded chimeras... Hopefully the RNG was kind to you with the chimeras you encounter on this wave and their respective timers! Regardless, unless you set up your board for this wave and are confident about your team's damage output without taking skyfalls into account with such, it is very likely that you might end up having to use an orb changing active here if you are not utilizing a dual delay build. Do not fire your gravities nor activate enhance though. Try to chain a 5 orb dark combo from your given board for some AOE damage. If you fail to take down one chimera after an active, it is very possible that your run might end here.
Wave 5: Zeus at last! Delay, fire your gravities if applicable or activate that dark attack enhance! Good luck! It is very possible to one shot him with a nice board even without gravities, but two to three waves of enhance should be plenty sufficient for the kill alone.
-section by Altamir-
There are many viable builds for Athena, but most fall under two different ideas. Gravity and no gravity. If you attempt gravity, it’s going to need to be close to max skilled, and you won’t need a second gravity. First build is the non-gravity, second is the gravity. Again, this is NOT the only way to get this done! I personally prefer the non-gravity version as it allows for a little more flexibility and utility earlier in the dungeon. Other viable subs would be the Batmans (men?), Persephone, and Hera-Ur / Beelzebub.
Floor 1, Gigas: 4 turns to burn down 603125. Depending on your board, this could be VERY easy. Try to take all the turns you have, but I would always err on the side of caution and finish him off one turn earlier than get caught dead.
Floor 2, Cu Chulainn: My personal opinion is that this is the hardest battle in the dungeon. He has 32 hit points. Try to work it so he’s just above halfway and then hit a big attack to make him dip deep under 50%. This is where having a drawn joker is nice for once you dip him under 50% he’s going to hit you with Pitch Black Assassin’s Dagger, which will take you down to just a few HP, and then follow it up with 8524 damage. Very easy to get hit with assassin’s dagger, pop DJ, heal up, attack, and then survive the next hit. Finish him off the next round.
Floor 3, Siegfried: Friendly Mister Siegfried won’t attack you until you attack him. This is a great spot to set up for a manual Change the World, and stall for skills. I would only suggest that you do not get greedy, one skyfall for next to zero damage and he’ll get pissed off. If everything goes perfect, do your attack when he’s on a 2 timer. It will give you 4 turns to hit him as much as you can. He has 2 million HP. His first action will be to get extremely angry. His second will most likely kill you. I would suggest using echidna or a Haku active if you need too.
Floor 4, Athena: This is where having a heavy dark team is great. Its fun to crush light monsters. Athena has a whopping 4.1mil HP. That can be pretty daunting, but its not THAT bad. If you have gravity, use it. It will knock her down to 2.9 million HP. This is the reason you want only bring one gravity. If you use two, it’ll knock her into her green HP and we’ll lose our elemental advantage. If you have echidna still, use that right off the bat. Athena’s first action is throw up a status shield. However if we do not have echidna we still have two turns of unanswered attacks!!! Basically hit her with everything you have. I would make you’re first hit your biggest, especially if you’ve got a lot of actives left. For a high end Dark heavy team, with a dark heavy board with a Loki or a D/W Batman, doing 2mil damage isn’t out of line. The last thing you want to do is hit her just enough to dip her into green HP. Then you have 2 million of green HP to hack through. If you dip her under 15% she’ll pause for a turn before crushing you.
So I highly suggest that you tackle Beelzebub with gravities. I’m fairly sure that someone could and can finish it off without using gravities, but Beelzebub has 4,865,764 hit points, none of which we have an elemental advantage against. It’s a lot of HP to grind through. On the plus side the 2nd stage of the dungeon provides a great place to stall for skills! I would highly suggest your gravities be at least moderately skilled. Your basic line up should be the following.
Floor 1, Cerberus: This is a pretty cruddy part of the dungeon, its activate or die. I’ve seen some builds roll in with over 20338 HP and survive the first turn. But I’m guessing not everyone has a ton of plus eggs. They do not have a lot of hit points, only 130k. So pull off a halfway decent combo and move on.
Floor 2, Wood Dark Tiamat: Here’s where we are going to stall for skills. If you need to move from this stage, you can expect roughly 8 more turns before Beelzebub. Also if all you’re skills aren’t up for him its not the end of the world. But do your best to hold your own here. Tiamat is going to preemptive attack with “Poison Breath”, which will turn 6 of your orbs into poison. Then two turn later he’ll attack with Hell Breath doing 10,126 damage, then going back to poison breath. This should give you plenty of time to heal, remove attack orbs, and stall. Once he dips under 50% health he does 15,188 damage, so when you are ready to move on, get him juuusssttt above 50% Wait until he attacks with hell breath, then you have 5 turns to finish off his remaining HP. Shouldn’t be too hard. If stalling here becomes difficult use either you extra echidna or your DJ.
Floor 3, Blizzard Archdemon Amon or Wind Archdemon Astaroth: This is by far the HARDEST floor in this entire dungeon. Both are difficult to kill, force you to fight them for multiple turns and have horrible attacks. So we’ll go over each. If you have two echidna, this is where you would use it!
Blizzard Archdemon Amon: Of the two I think this one is the worst (and of course the one I got when I did this descend!). So he only has 51,111 HP; however his preemptive attack is to bind both your leaders for 3 turns. So no multiplier for a quick finish. His three attacks are for 12625 attack, one for 10100 that changes one set of orbs to jammers, and once he gets under 50%, he has a chance to attack for 13257. If you have 2 echidna, use one, ride out the binds, set up your board and then finish him off. If not, use your DJ to create heart orbs, stall until your 3 turns are up, and then blast him.
Wind Archdemon Astaroth: She only has 39 hit points which you have to chip away. Her preemptive is to black out the board. Her attack pattern is as follows: her first attack will be to hit you for 4750 and change all your heal orbs to an off color orb, she then follows up with a gravity attack which will remove 75% of your HP, she will then go back to removing your heart orbs. Once you get her under 30%, she’ll just start smashing you for 13,300 damage. Again if you have an extra echidna hang with her as long as you can, and then use menace and finish her off, while she’s stalled. If not. I would keep track of her HP, under 30% is 11 HP, use your DJ to create heal orbs when you need them. When she’s just above 11, hit her hard, make sure you have over 13,300 HP, take your hit, and then finish.
Floor 4, Flame Archdemon Belial: Belial, is a nice guy; he’ll heal you, and then give you 3 turns to kill him, before he OHKOs you. Do your best to try and kill him without having to use your Haku active, but with 1.3million HP, it may not be possible. That’s ok! Just don’t let him get a turn.
Floor 5, Archdemon Beelzebub: We’ve got one thing going for us against Beelzebub, our Haku active can cancel out his all poison board. He’ll hit you for a preemptive attack of 9003, but that’s pretty much an afterthought. Use gravities, use menace, After that he’s only got 2.38 million HPs. And we’ve technically got 6 turns to finish him. Unless you’re really knocking the crud out of him and know you can finish, save your Haku active. After our 4 turns of attacking, hopefully you’ve gotten him under 40% HP. His first attack will be “Not going easy anymore!” and he’ll knock us down to 50% of our health. Who cares, attack again, don’t worry about healing. His next attack will be “Sink into a sea of posion!!” and turn the entire board into poison orbs. Counter it with your Haku active, turning the board back into useful orbs, and finish him.
There are two popular ways to tackle this dungeon. One is double delay, the other is a heavy red team with a single gravity. This is NOT an easy descend. Zeus-Dios is not a great leader, not the greatest sub, and has nothing to do Byakko teams; this is about bragging rights. To seriously tackle this you should have max or near max monsters, over 600 plus eggs with friend and I would suggest having an RCV over 3k with friend. Expect to spend a stone or two, and be happy if you do not.
This is the heavy red team:
This is the double delay team:
Floor 1, Berserk and Highlander: This descend starts off with a bang. Berserk’s first turn counter is to bind all fire monsters for 10 turns, while Highlander’s first turn counter is to make the board go dark (in the sense of the blindness skill). So basically if you do not have a board you can activate on turn one, you are dead. Highlander has fairly good armor, a 5 combo is just not going to cut it. Combo and combo hard. As long as the skyfalls doesn’t go out of control, you’re not going to kill berserker. We actually WANT Berserk to bind us. This will allow us for 10 turns to stall and combo without fear of killing Berserk. Berserk above 25% hits for 14085 every other turn, so with 3k RCV you are going to need to heal, and hit 6 combos every turn. If you brought a DJ this will make this easier. If you think that’s the tricky part, the hard part is finish off this floor and moving forward. Once the binds wear off, work Berserk just above 25%, because once he dips under 25% he’ll hit for 28k. If you are not doing double delay team this is the hard part. You have to finish off roughly 300k in two turns, but since you are mostly red, its more like 600k. If you are doing double delay, pop your delay, and kill him off safely. NOTE: Make sure you are above 11,775 health as well when you kill him.
Floor 2, Griffin, the Hunter: This floor is a nice break. Griffin is going to hit you for 11k prempt attack. But will give you two turns to finish him off. He only has 340k HP and if you are going heavy red, it’s easier than that. Just don’t let him attack.
Floor 3, Archangel: Again this floor is not too bad, but a good warm up for the hell that is coming up next. She only has 647k HP, but hits for 11160, and has a chance to resurrect. She also has a chance to change dark to jammers. I seriously would not hang around here, and kill her ASAP.
Floor 4, Hera: This is where things get a nasty. Hera will hit you for a preemptive of 5k and then start smacking you for 10k a turn. Once and awhile she may turn two types of orbs to jammers. Basically the plan here with either build is to stand toe to toe with her as long as you can. This is going to require heals every turn, at 6 to 7 combos, and obviously not something that can be sustained for very long. The only thing you do not want to do is dip her under 60%. Under 60% she has a chance to hit you for 18k. Once you get her whittled down, or can’t take the heat, with both teams, delay her, and try to kill her in 4 turns. This should be very possible. I would possibly recommend using a 7-star here if you need to. Once she gets under 25%, she’ll pause for one turn to gather energy, before blasting you for 60k. You need to be at full health before finishing Hera off.
Floor 5, Zeus-Dios: Zeus-Dios, like every other Zeus has a bunch of awful abilities that will ruin your team, going toe to toe to him is pretty much a death sentence. So we are not going to do that. He’s going to start off with a 14k preemptive attack. If you went with a heavy red team, use your gravity, Use Freyr, Use 7-Star and hope for a pretty good red board, then pop Hera-Ur and combo HARD. If you do not kill him in one shot, he will spend one turn to put up a shield, and then proceed to crush you. So finish him. If you went with double delay, hit your longest delay, this will give you hopefully enough time to burn down 4mil in HP. Use every active you have. Again if you do not finish him he will give you one turn when he pops his shield before wrecking you.
The two builds I know of, one is with skilled gravities, and one without. I have done both, the skilled gravities is MUCH safer. But I do not regret taking a risk and getting my Satan earlier.
Here is the gravity build, it’s for sane people. Your gravities should be near max skilled, and your Drawn Joker and Echidna should max skilled.
Floor 1, Kraken: Kill one Kraken and take two hits from the other. Then use DJ to make hearts and heal up. Make sure you use ALL heart orbs, since there are no heart orbs in this dungeon and odd left over heart orbs will basically be jammers.
Floor 2, Cerberus: Stall as long as you can, if you’re confidant in your board and your comboing skills you should be able to one shot him.
Floor 3, Lilith: With 677,770 HP she is VERY annoying. You may be able to OHKO, but it might take two, and of course she may resurrect. Just don’t get swatted twice.
Floor 4, Vampires: Pop Menace right away. Kill two as fast as you can, and leave one. You should follow the same pattern as you did with the Krakens. Take two hits and then heal. Clear all heart orbs and move to Hades.
Floor 5, Hades: Easy stuff. I would take your time killing him. Making sure Echidna is active again before finishing him off, if you have a lot of time, try and save some attack orbs for Satan.
Floor 6, Satan: Take your hit, use menace, gravities, and throw everything you have at him. After gravities he has 3.26million HP left. With 4 turns, one turn for him to pop a shield and one turn to attack, it gives you 6 turns with two Haku actives to finish him off. Very doable.
Now for the little less sane method. You can use any of the two strongest light monsters you have, but one of them should either be rose valk, or Athena so you have the green sub. If you use Verche, DO NOT use his active, as you won’t be able to activate. When I rolled with this build I use Rose Valk and Athena. You can also sub out Hera-Is for any strong blue monster.
Floors 1 through 5: Stall where you can, set up your board and kill. Not going to lie, this requires equal parts luck and skill and a complete disregard for your own safety you should be able to one shot everything. The hardest floor BY FAR is going to be the Vampires. PRAY they don’t all roll in on a 1 counter.
Floor 6, Satan: Use menace and its all in. When I tried this it took me every single turn to kill him. I had 2 or 3 boards I could not activate. But I also had no other options as Haku was my only spike lead. If you go this way. Good freaking luck
There are a few different ways to tackle this, but this is my preferred method. Obviously an Orochi can be used in place of one of the echidna. Also note that both of your echidna’s do not need to be fully evolved, your 2nd echidna does not need to be maxed skilled, nor does your gravity user. You can sub a Chaos Dragon Knight in for Dark Liege, Vampire Duke, but I would highly suggest be max skill. Your HP has to be above 13334 to survive the preemptive attacks from the Dubs.
Floor 1: This floor is make or break for this dungeon, if it goes well. The rest of the dungeon should be zero stone, if it does not. You could pay, or perhaps be better off restarting. Your goal is to hit between a 5 to 6 combo. You cannot multi-attack, and I would NOT double up on colors. If you get over a 7 combo, immediately target one of the lesser lits, your largest attack will be used and you should not sweep the level. From here, If you have two mythlits left, kill one of them ASAP. Once you have only one slowly work down the remaining mythlit and heal as you are attacked. Stall until your menace is up. Wait until your binds are on one counters, or close to one counters, and finish the level.
Floor 2: Use menace, and use your skills to multiattack as much as possible to work the Dub-lits down. Here you can use your Haku active or gravity if you get orb trolled or in trouble. They will be back up by the time the boss rolls around.
Floor 3: Use your second menace, and again use your skills to multiattack. I personally keep a small piece of paper to keep track of the TAMADRA’s HP so I know how close I am to finishing him off. Once the TAMA is down to less than 50%, you should be able to single focus on the Dubs and clear them. Once the TAMA is the only remaining monster, start to store orbs at the bottom of your screen for a manual Change the World. You’re going to get bound, you’re going to get hit, its annoying, very annoying, and it takes time, but you’re not going to die, just get your board set, get your skills up, and then whittle down the TAMA. Once your bind counters are on 1, finish off the TAMA.
Floor 4, Angelit and Devilit: The bosses are really easy. Hit gravity, hit menace. Target the angelit and use your stored orbs. You have to finish off the Angelit before menace is up. It shouldn't be too hard. Once menace wears off, the devilit will use a turn to get angry. Hit menace from your second Echidna, you have another 4 turns to kill him.
The hardest part about mythical is the first three waves. If you don’t have a board you can activate you are most likely going to die, or be VERY close to dying. Here is a build that I would recommend. I would suggest having higher skilled gravities. There are other builds out there that involve King Baddie and Hera-Ur or Hermes. But they seem very dependent on plus eggs, and may not be 100% accessible.
Floor 1 is combo and clear.
Floor 2 you want to do about a 4 or 5 combo, it should clear all but one mid ninja where you can stall.
Floor 3, 5 combo should clear all but one mid ninja where you can stall.
Floor 4, Mitsuki: Do as best you can to stall, heal, and trade attacks. 9k every turn is a lot and eventually you’re not going to be able to keep up with her, when it becomes too much, pop echidna and do what you can to heal and attack. I would not let her drop under 30%, as her attack changes to 14k. Hopefully at this point gravities should be up. If you need to, Haku active to finish her.
Floor 5, Goemon: Depending on your build, use what gravities you have and pop all actives to finish him. If you have two gravities, he should only have 1.7mil to finish off in 4 turns. Should be very doable.
Wish to contribute to this section and help out your fellow Byakko lovers? Feel free to send me a PM if you have beaten a dungeon that isn't listed here or used an alternative strategy to beat one of those that already has a write-up!
08-21-2013, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2014 02:26 PM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
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08-21-2013, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 01-18-2014 05:53 PM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
Seiryu: Water/ Dark/ Wood
Unfortunately, Seiryu is not as popular as Byakko nor Suzaku due to the elements she covers. Although this is disadvantageous primarily because the farmable Echidna is not included in her elements and utility wood subs are not easy to come by, she can pair up with other leaders such as Bastet or Kushinada for a higher multiplier.
-section by Aulanticus-
Water subs are almost never an issue for Karin. For one, Karin herself is water. Because of this, and the fact that Karin may very well be one of (if not the) strongest member on your team, water damage will almost always be a significant chunk of your damage (especially if you're using a friend Karin leader). This is something to take note of for dungeons like Goemon, Hera-Ur, Zeus-Dios, and Two Heroes (or even the monocolor normal/technical dungeons), among other things. Information for stuff that are most likely to get imported into the US version will be in italics
These dragons serve as little more than a (mediocre) stat stick for now. Its active serves little more than a small bit of extra damage; or something to take out a trash mob. It's still an okay filler for your team; especially to take on fire dungeons.
Assuming the info about the active buffs is true, then they are most certainly welcome. We've yet to see what they can really do, however. (though plus orbs, as Bhelrudan has pointed out, don't contribute as much as other actives). And it's still a long reach away. What's more is that you still have to find ways to stall for their high turn count.
Mythril deserves mention as a dragon, though due to its resist and active. If you have the ability to stall for his active, you can have him switch from Karin and turn the team into a pseudo resist team (and stall for other skills); and then switch back. His green subtyping also allows him to fill the token green and become a viable slot in a hybrid monoblue.
Siren has excellent RCV (on a team starving for RCV) and a very good active - converting an off color for some needed heart orbs. Additionally, her active is one of the easiest to level in the game; and serves as a staple on other tanking teams. Additionally, she can be paired with Chu Culainn , Siegfried, or Vampire Lord for additional burst damage for that element (if your team has room for it). Only downside for her is her other stats - HP and attack, are lacking (but they're compensated for by the RCV and heart conversion).
The poor man's water Susano - Ice golem/Midgard (or Keeper of Blue if you're just starting). Its stats are typical of a physical type - high HP, okay attack, REALLY LOW RCV. RCV is a huge issue on spike damage teams and Karin's is no exception. Its active has uses, though; and a bind resist awakening is also a good asset to have. Asgard's also relatively easy to skill up since all of the Keepers are farmable guaranteed drop on Tuesday dungeon.
Hera-Is is almost practically a staple on Karin's team. Her stats are great, her dark sub element make her a token dark (which especially works on a monoblue team), and most importantly, she has gravity. There are very few reasons to not include her on your Karin team if you have access to her. The only problems are that her dungeon is hard and gravity is still VERY difficult to stall for. At least her skill up is somewhat bearable to farm for.
Kraken is a possible sub on this team, but its RCV is negative (on a team with a huge need for RCV), its other stats are mediocre, and its active, while useful, offers little in exchange for the sacrificed stats. Plus it's hard to farm for. Possibly a gimmicky devil team hybrid candidate, but there are far better options.
King Bubblie has only one use on a Karin team - enhance for a physical hybrid team. Its enhance is pretty amazing. It has little to offer otherwise. Even as a Big Bubblie, there are better alternatives (namely Siren).
Mystic Ice Knight/Kamui has little to offer for Karin's team due to his active converting needed green orbs. Hatsume suffers from the same problem. Hatsume is REM only
Siegfried is another potential sub to work for a monoblue or physical hybrid team. Additionally, it offers blue burst damage in the form of heart breaking to blue. With the RO collab (and Two Heroes not being that hard to complete), max skilling Siegfried is not impossible. Its stats are typical of a physical type - meaning its attack and HP are great, but its RCV is pitifully low. Blue Valkyrie is similar (and even a useless element for Karin to boot), but her RCV is always a welcome addition.Blue Valk is REM only and not yet released in the US
A duplicate Seiryuu/Karin has potential to be used here. Her stats are okay, but the RCV could be better. It's not a substitute for Gravity users (whose RCV tend to be at least a bit better), though. But at least her active is much easier to stall for than gravities. REM only
Undine might have some niche use in dungeons such as the fire normals, technicals; and dungeons such as Goemon and Hera-Ur, but her use is still limited; and requires investing EXP in her, when it can be used elsewhere. Her stats don't offer much either. Her balanced typing might be usable for a balanced hybrid team though.
Neptune serves as an even better stat stick than the dragons. Great attack, HP, and most importantly, RCV. He can even serve as the token dark if darks are in short supply for you or if you want to form a monoblue hybrid team. His active, though, serves little more than a defense piercer for high defense mobs with low health. The AB Bluebird Blue might be an alternative, but its stats are far worse. Additionally, at 15 to 20 turns, poison is difficult to stall for. REM only
Orochi is almost a guaranteed spot on the team if you're lucky enough to pull it. It has one of the most important skills in the game - Delay. Its stats are decent, too. It's RCV, while not much to write home about, is much better than other physical types in the game (since he will become a physical type when he busty evolves). The only downside is, its delay, while longer, is a lot harder to stall for due to it being 25 turns. On top of 25 turns is the RCV issue. Its upcoming busty evo also allows the potential for a physical/Karin hybrid team. REM only
A former REM troll roll, Megalodran does serve a purpose on this team. While he has little to offer over Siren AND he has the potential to be bound by fire binders, his active is still the exact same as Siren's (making it easier to level). What he does offer over Siren is his physical typing. This allows potential for a somewhat viable Karin/Physical team hybrid. His bind resist awakening also doesn't hurt either, but it's much harder to max awaken. REM only
Blue Odin is much like Neptune for this team - his active offers little, but his stats are great. Even if the rumor on his active allowing recovery is true, health recovery would have to be amazing for it to do much on this team. And even then, you'd still have to stall for it. REM Godfest only
Idunn & Idunna (I&I) is a possible sub on this team. While their HP is lacking, their attack and RCV stats are excellent. At the very least, their active will always enhance themselves and Karin. Additionally, a monoblue hybrid team isn't exactly a long shot either; but it does require a significant bit of specialization. They can also fit on a balanced team, but you'd most likely be packing another enhance (Robin or King Woodsie) anyway, making it rather moot.REM only
The blue sticker girl, Ruka, is no Siren. While her stats are slightly better than Siren, her active converts dark orbs needed to activate Karin (plus you can't activate Ruka's active as often). This helps in some ways if you're trying to stall and prevent an accidental activation, but it still doesn't help very much in the needed push to kill a boss unless you pair her with Vampire. Sticker Girl REM only
Amon serves little more than a worse stat stick than Neptune. Additionally, his active not only requires a bit of stalling, but it also requires that Karin take a hit - something that the Karin team does not have the luxury of doing. Even with the buff on the active of converting fire as an off color, 20 turns is still hard to stall for; especially since it does little more than offer orb conversion.REM only
Hermes serves little more than a stat stick for Karin. His off-color element does nothing for the team (and serves as a liability for light binds) and his active eats up wood orbs. REM only
Much like Hermes, Gabriel also offers little for a Karin team outside of stats (particularly the RCV). His active eats a main color, as well; which makes it require Vampire Lord to convert those hearts if you want to go for damage. His active only offers a chance to stall without accidental conversion; but even then, that's still a stretch. Plus, it requires 13 turns. REM only
While Umisachi&Yamasachi (UmiYama) is an excellent leader in their own rights, they also serve as an excellent sub to Karin's team. Green is often a difficult color to find good subs for. This makes monoblue hybrid teams even more of an option. The conversion of an off color and heart orbs is always a plus and its stats are great to boot. In fact, the only downside to them is they're REM only. =(
Isis serves little more than a stat stick right now. Assuming the upcoming info is true, her ultimate Evo will most likely serve as little more than an additional stat stick with good RCV. However, with the upcoming buff to her active, bind reduction is an interesting active to consider REM only
Lakshmi has great RCV, but her other stats and active are lacking. But who knows what they have in store for her? There are rumors floating around that the developers have something special in store for her.
Luckily for a Karin team, dark subs are extremely plentiful; and are almost never an issue. Due to their massive utility, they will most likely fill up your team if water subs didn't. In fact, there are plenty of devil subs that have the water sub type.
Dark Dragons: Same as water dragons. Mediocre stat sticks, stepping stones for better stuff. Possible active buffs might have potential. Moving on.
Zaerog, the legendary dragon himself, offers one of the strongest gravities in the game. He also has good attack and is also theoretically farmable for skillups. He also has low HP and negative RCV. His dungeon is also not easy.
Lilith serves as lesser of a stat stick than Neptune (due to her RCV), but plays the same niche role. She's more accessible though, due to her being farmable.
No longer an REM exclusive, Drawn Joker serves as the dark type heart converter alternative to Siren. While its stats aren't much (let alone its RCV), its devil typing makes a devil hybrid team more viable. He's also an option for a dragon hybrid team.
Keeper of Rainbow (RK) (or Keeper of Dark) is a good beginner's stepping stone. It functions much like golems, but doesn't need fodder to level. The downside is, that you can't skill him up; making his active a 20-turn stall requirement.
Hera and Hades are definite spot fillers in a descend team (you might even want to have two gravity users). Gravity is always a plus when fighting bosses. Their stats are also great. Hades outshines Hera in everything but HP; but Hera is more accessible. The main downside is that stalling for gravity is a tall order at 30 turns. Skilling these up will be a nightmare. Hades is REM only
Dark Golem offers similar stat distribution as his other golem brethren, but his active isn't that great. On a team where there is both plenty of accessible water and dark alternatives and a green type (Droidragon) that fills Dark Golem's role much better, Dark Golem leaves much to be desired. At least he has a farmable skillup, though.
Cerberus Crappy stats and negative RCV. Plus orbs help slightly, but not enough for Karin. Better suited in monodark.
Beelzebub has 0 RCV, which doesn't help a Karin team very much; but it's better than negative. It has excellent attack for piercing through defenses, though. Plus orbs are okay, but not that spectacular.
King Baddie: Same as King bubblie and King Woodsie; except for devil types. Devils are aplenty (one is even a heart converter). But green devils are REM only and there has yet to be a devil delay.
Vampire Lord without the busty evos isn't much different than Chu Chulainn or Siegfried. But unlike Cu Chu and Sieg, Vamp is still farmable in a normal dungeon. Additionally, while Sieg offers higher HP and Cu Chu offers higher attack, Vampire offers slightly higher RCV out of the three. His balanced typing also makes him a possible sub for balanced teams; as does his devil typing for devil teams. His ultimate evolutions offer additional stats. His water evo makes water Vamp's main type and trades his Balanced typing for a Physical typing; which makes him a possible choice for a Physical hybrid team. Dark Valk is pretty much the same as Vampire lord, except her RCV is better. Dark Valk isn't released yet, but will be REM only
CDK Voice and Hanzo both have okay stats and convert an off color. Giving additional combo options much like any orb changer. But there are better dark options; and best serve as training wheels and farming subs rather than descend subs. Hanzo is REM only
Vritra, FA Lucifer = Stat sticks. Actives aren't particularly useful. Though FA Luci can be used to pierce light monster's defenses. Next. REM only
Thanatos: Niche role vs. light (ex. Valk descended). Devil subtype. Poor stats. REM only
Yomi is an interesting choice. There are many youtube tutorial videos on how to properly utilize Yomi's change the world skill. It's a tough thing to master and is still reliant on its combo with seven star (which is reliant on the RNG). There's even a farmable skill up for Change the World. If you can master that skill's usage, Yomi is a definitely a sub to consider. The upcoming ultimate evos give Yomi even better stats. REM only
Griffin Rider Gryps: Horrible stats, but devil subtype. Converts hearts and an off color for once, though. Light bind makes it an extra liability to light binders. REM only
Loki is an option if you can fill your team with dark subtypes, which is easy enough to do. ECO Dumpty Alma is a more accessible option. D/W Batman is yet another option, though he offers higher burst for 1 turn while Loki offers slightly lower burst for 3 turns and has a (hard to farm) skill up. Loki also has good RCV. Loki is REM only; D/W Batman is Batman REM only
Kurone isn't exactly Siren, but she actually does convert an off color for once. She is probably one of the few sticker girls that actually helps a Chinese god by converting an off color (the other being Kano for Leilan/Suzaku). Still, stalling for her skill isn't exactly something to look forward to; even with the recent available farmable skillup. Especially since there are many other water and dark options available. Sticker Girl REM only
SoD Lucifer has a good skill and is a good leader in his own right. Outside of that, he has good RCV and okay attack, but low HP. It's a spot to consider if you have nothing else, but gravities will probably do more damage unless you're fighting a light type like Valk. Additionally, his light typing does him and the team no favors. REM only
Persephone has excellent attack, excellent RCV and decent HP. Her devil subtype also makes her an option for devil hybrid teams. The drawn joker survey dungeon also have her a farmable skillup option on an active that converts off colors (and hearts) for more dark burst damage. She's a good option if you have room for her. However, her fire typing doesn't do her any favors on this team; and she may suffer from fire binders. REM only
Okuninushi is a good leader in his own right. But a short cooldown delay (even though it's 1 turn) is always welcome for a Karin team. He does have Physical typing when he evolves; making him a candidate when making a physical hybrid team. He does have low RCV as is typical of physical types. REM only
Anubis Dark counter attack requires that Karin take a hit. Not something she can afford to do; especially on bosses. And the change to his active converts a needed color REM only
D/L Batman and D/D Batman Both are welcome additions if you were lucky enough to pull them. Both of their cooldowns are reasonable; and both bring something to the table (D/L Batman giving HP and D/D Batman giving attack). D/L Batman is still liable to light binders though, but he also has physical typing; making him another candidate for physical team hybrids. Neither of them have good RCV either. Batman REM only
Joker The active is too unreliable to be used with any sort of consistency. While he's got great attack, his HP is mediocre and his RCV is nonexistent. He does have a devil type to take advantage of, though. Batman REM only
While water and dark options are almost never an issue, wood serves as the color that gives Karin the most trouble. Chinese gods with access to Red (Suzaku/Leilan, Byakko/Haku, and even Kirin/Sakuya) have Echidna; whose skillup is relatively easier to farm and RCV is a great plus. while those that don't (Seiryuu/Karin and Genbu/Mei-Mei) must resort to the REM delays, who as of the date of this post, have a physical type stat distribution and no farmable skill up. In addition to not having a delay, most green subs tend to not play well in a team that's not built around them (such as a monogreen team; possibly even Bastet).
The wood dragons aren't much different than the water dragons. But their use in a Karin team is even less wanted because green is a precious spot in a team that's starving for green subs that play well with Karin.
Adamant, much like Mythril, deserves special mention; as it fills nearly the same role as Mythril does; except it stalls for Wood and Dark enemies instead of Wood and Water enemies. The dark subtyping is a plus that makes the team a bit more flexible.
As of right now, Alraune offers little more than a wood slot and good RCV as expected of a healer. Therefore, she's not really worth the spot on the team. However, bind reduction is an interesting buff to the skill if that's true. 20 turns is still a lot to stall for, though.
The real poor man's Susano Wood Golem/Asgard (or Keeper of Wood for beginners). Is pretty much the green equivalent of the ice golem, Asgard except for its green typing, which makes it probably makes it the better choice of the two defensive stance golems. It also has the same weaknesses as its blue counterpart (LOW RCV). Also, 15 turns of stalling (max skill, golem/Asgard only) is still no small feat.
Zeus-Dios is a prime example of a green sub working mostly in a team of green subs. He offers little for a Karin team outside of stats; and his dungeon is extremely hard. He's a good leader in his own right though.
Much like Kraken, Griffin doesn't offer much outside of plus orbs. It's an okay bonus, but your team will most likely have more blue and dark subs than green ones; making its role an extreme niche at best. At least it has some nice RCV and good attack, though.
Puzzle and Dragons suffers from no shortage of dragons; especially wood and dark dragons. Draggie might be an option; should you try and build a dragon/Karin team hybrid. Be wary though - his stats aren't great and he has no RCV. Dragons are similar to Draggie in this regard; although not as extreme as Draggie.
Tengu gives the Karin team an option of switching to a pseudo zombie team. Additionally, if you can fully awaken him, Tengu reduces the number of turns required for the first activation of all actives (including gravity, delay, and seven star) by three whole turns. But his lack of RCV makes him a questionable choice. He's also not an easy sub to farm for; let alone fully awaken. Additionally, even with full awakening, stalling for his active is no small task.
Much like Shiva and Neptune, Droidragon fills a niche use - piercing the defense of low HP, high defense enemies. His stats are okay as well, but his attack is low. He does serve as the green slot for a physical team; given his physical typing.
King Woodsie, much like King Bubblie, has little use outside of a balance hybrid team. He is there for the sole purpose of the big damage push with balance subs. Unfortunately, unlike a physical team, which has access to plenty of tools (heartmaker, delay, enhance, defensive stance), balance subs have access mostly this and orb changing (granted, Chu Chulainn is one of those orb changers); making a balance team mostly better suited for farming rather than descends. Robin fills in the spot too for a balanced type of team, but instead of giving one huge burst, he gives consistent (almost permanent) enhancement. Robin is Batman REM only
Cu Chulainn is another viable green sub. His dark subtyping also allows for a much easier time in filling remaining subs. His heart conversion also good for additional burst if needed and also pairs well with a heart maker. His stats, especially his attack, are also up to par. Just keep in mind that it's no get out of jail free card; and the active is useless when you need those hearts to recover.
Unlike Fenrir Knight Kamui, ADK Zeal converts an off color; making it viable for orb changing for an additional damage boost; or as a means of a way out of a board that lacks green orbs (but it doesn't guarantee a way out). Its stats are still lacking; but at least it's still a possible farmable green sub that's viable.
Sasuke offers little outside of his nice attack. His active converts a color needed to activate Karin - dark. Probably not the best sub for a Karin team (a Leilan/Suzaku team on the other hand...). REM only
Genbu/Mei-Mei, Michael, Green Odin, Kano, and Green Sonia = stat sticks. Actives aren't useful for Karin team. Moving on.
REM only; Odin is godfest REM only; Green Sonia isn't released yet, but will also be godfest REM only
Slyph serves little outside of a niche role for dungeons like Hera-Is. His stats aren't much either. Even then, you still need to invest resources. REM only
Devil Ceres fills a green/dark niche; making it easier to fill in subs. She also fills a role as a devil in devil hybrid teams. Otherwise, mostly a stat stick. Her heal might get you out of only one sticky situation in a descend, but don't expect to use it very much because of its cooldown. REM only
One of the most coveted subs for many teams, Susano is a great addition to a Karin team. His stats are okay as of right now, but his active Iron Wall Stance can save your hide from many situations; giving you time to clear the board and get needed hearts. It's no delay, but it's still a huge plus to have. The Gunma collab's release in the U.S. only made Susano even better due to the ability to reliably skill him up. The leek from that collab might have poor stats (but great RCV), but that also might be a possible addition to consider as well; just because iron wall is that good. His upcoming ultimate evo only makes him better REM only
Parvati and Fortoytops are strange additions. The ECO collab allowed them to be skilled up much more easily. Even though these heart converters convert the ever needed blue orbs, think about what you need to NOT do when you have to stall - activate Karin. This is EXACTLY what these two do; and they heal you at the same time. It's a peculiar addition that requires specific means of play. They're definitely not easy to use. But if you do have them and the means to get their skills up to max skill, they might be worth a try. REM only
Marine Rider Robin works a lot like Beast Rider Merlin - it has little to offer in the stat department and it converts needed orbs. Though it does have that green option for a devil hybrid team. REM only
Unlike Idunn and Idunna, Freyja offers very little outside of stat stick usage. You could theoretically try and make a Karin team with only green subs (and possibly fill it solely with balanced subs), but it lacks utility. Realistically, you will most likely have room for only 1 or 2 green subs at best. (She might work well with Genbu/Mei-Mei though) REM only
Astaroth is a green/dark devil stat stick and might fill a role similar to Devil Ceres in this regard. Unlike Ceres, though, Astaroth's active is still hard to use on a Karin team. REM only
Unlike Hermes, Artemis has a place on the team. While her HP and RCV are okay at best, her attack is amazing; and her active converts an off color; on top of hearts, to make for more burst damage. However, her light subtype does nothing for the team; and may even be a liability for light binders (which you will probably take out last). Great for an emphasis on offense, though. REM only
Kushinadahime is an excellent alternative to Susano. While she doesn't have a famable skillup yet, her active requires less turns to stall for and guards more damage. Her RCV is also a great addition to the team. The only downside to her active is that it lasts one turn; meaning that you had better make that extra turn count. Because of the number of turns Kushinadahime's active is used, her active is played slightly differently than Susano's active. Her active is no substitute for Susano's active, though. So be wary of that. REM only
Bastet fills a niche role on a Karin team. Her active has some uses here and there (for example, on twinlits bosses in the twinlits descend and the chimeras in Zeus descend) and her RCV is great. However, outside of that, her uses are limited. REM only
For more Information on Posts of Particular Relevance to Seiryu and Descend Clear Videos, please visit ott's thread at:
08-21-2013, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2014 05:14 PM by Misa.)
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
Suzaku: Fire/ Wood/ Light
For info please visit the Suzaku Guide at: http://puzzleanddragonsforum.com/showthread.php?tid=30868
08-21-2013, 03:37 PM
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
Looks great so far. Thanks for the guide!
08-21-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
I take it that Kirin isn't included?
Well, I'm not that experienced, but I found value in lining up Kirin/Sakuya with Suzaku/Leilan since it allows me to do damage without necessarily killing the whole wave, though a lot times, sky drops give me the whole 17.5 anyway.
It's like how people go Isis Horus or Horus Ra. I'll test it out more though.
08-21-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Fledgling Write-Up on The Other Chinese Gods
you mentioned 10.25x in your thread. i think it should be 12.25?
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